Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 by Shawn Dake
United Caribbean Lines is a company without ships that isn’t anywhere near starting service yet, but has come up with an interesting concept. They plan to use converted Danish ferries for service from Tampa, Florida to Havana, Cuba, with a possible secondary service to Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula. The overnight voyages would take 18 hours each way. Should Cuba open up to U.S. tourism this line could be riding in on the first wave. Perennial cruise executive, Bruce Nierenberg is the man behind this latest venture.
United Caribbean Lines proposed livery.
Travel to Cuba is currently banned for most, but not all U.S. citizens. Cuban-Americans with relatives on the island are permitted to travel on charter flights, and do so in great numbers, from Miami, Tampa, New York and Los Angeles. The concept of taking them to Havana by ship is not approved at present, although Nierenberg is said to be in the process of seeking permits from the U.S. Treasury Department. The idea is that with a comparable cost, and the ability to take more goods and supplies along with them, people would opt to go by sea instead of air with the added amenities of dining, shows, movies and entertainment. The concept of a mini-cruise on converted ferries is not something new to Nierenberg who three decades ago was CEO of Scandinavian World Cruises which later evolved into the one-day SeaEscape Cruises. Proposed fares would be $350 round-trip based on double occupancy of a cabin, or $150 in an airline-style seat in a lounge. For families traveling together, third and fourth guests would be charged half fare. The vehicle decks of the ferry could be used for transporting larger items like bedding, appliances, medicine and clothing that are either not available or too expensive to be purchased in Cuba.
United Caribbean Lines says it has the ability to start service later this year if it is granted the U.S. license to serve Cuba. Nierenberg claims that there will be no trouble in procuring suitable vessels in the 1,500 to 2,000 passenger range. “It’s a buyer’s market these days, and I will have no problem getting cruise ferries from one of the major operators in Denmark.” Not so, says European ferry expert Bruce Peter. “DFDS (Danish Ferries) do not have any passenger ships for sale; the next to become available will probably be from Viking Line once their new Stockholm-Turku vessel is built. There’s not exactly a glut of cruise ferry tonnage for grabs in Europe right now.”
The vessel pictured in United Caribbean Lines color scheme is actually the ANEK Lines ferry EL. VENIZELOS. The ship was originally ordered in 1979 but took until 1984 to launch for Stena Lines as the STENA POLONICA. It was never delivered to them, and in 1988 the still incomplete ship went to Fred. Olsen Lines and was renamed BONANZA. Finally in 1992 the ship went to the Greeks and was completed as EL. VENIZELOS, making for one of the longest gestation periods of any major vessel. The 575 foot long ship has a gross tonnage of 38,261 tons. The ship is presently chartered to Tunisia Ferries and ANEK have denied that a deal has been done. Bruce Nierenberg has previously stated that the vessel pictured is only for illustrative purposes and it might be a different ship that they finally acquire.
Cruise ferry service from Tampa to the Yucatan has also been proposed for many years without much success. During the winter of 2002/2003 the SCOTIA PRINCE (ex STENA OLYMPICA) gave it a brief try before discontinuing the route. With the present decline in tourism to Mexico, this seems like a bad time for a start-up car ferry operation. This service is proposed for the first half of 2012, with the voyage taking 30 hours each way. While no cars would be carried to Cuba, up to 600 at a time could be transported to Mexico. If unrestricted tourism to Cuba were to open up in the future, having a ship already based in Florida that could quickly be shifted from Mexico to Cuban service might prove to be a great benefit for United Caribbean Lines.
Cuba currently receives 2.5 million visitors each year primarily from Canada, Europe and Latin America. More than 400,000 Cuban-Americans flew to Havana in 2010. The projected influx of U.S. tourists is projected at between 1 and 2 million annually should the embargo be lifted. A large majority of these would arrive by cruise ships as hotel capacity in Cuba is still too low to handle the additional arrivals. The resignation this week of 84-year old Fidel Castro from leadership of the Cuba Communist Party coupled with the Obama administration relaxing restrictions on U.S. travel to Cuba may both be signs of enormous changes coming sooner than later. The cruise industry will be on the first wave of reaping the benefits should Cuba emerge as the latest Caribbean tourism destination.
Thanks to Bruce Peter and Martin Cox
Kalle Id
April 22, 2011 at 2:53 am
A fascinating concept that would be very interesting to see realized. I’ve often thought Miami to Havana could be a viable route for a cruise/ferry operations similar to the ones sailing between Finland and Sweden – if US-Cuban relations were better. It seems I was not the only one with the idea.
I wonder if by “major operators in Denmark” mr Nierenberg was in fact (mistakenly) referring to the Swedish Stena Line, who still own the EL VENIZELOS’ sister ships? Although those are not likely to be up for sale in the near future either, as they have just been refitted for Stena’s Karlskrona-Gdynia (Sweden-Poland) service. Also, there have been persistent rumours that DFDS could be closing down their loss-making passenger division. If so, four well-maintained cruiseferries could be in the market.
Additionally, there is one cruiseferry that it currently for sale: Tallink’s 1980-built REGINA BALTICA that is laid up in Estonia. However, she would require a major refit if this service was to compete with Caribbean cruise ships. Tallink are reportedly experiencing financial difficulties and it is possible other (newer) vessels from their fleet will also become available – or could be bought right now, if the price is right.
Kalle Id
April 22, 2011 at 5:52 am
(Apologies for the double post). What comes to Bruce Peter’s remark that the next time a cruiseferry will be on the market is after Viking Line’s newbuilding in completed (in 2013), my last information is that the ISABELLA (the ship the newbuilding will replace) will be used to open a new service for Viking Line and hence will not be put for sale.
The EL VENIZELOS used on the image on the other hand could be a possibility, even if her owners and operators have denied an official deal existing at this time. Cotunav (Tunisia Ferries) will be taking a delivery of a new 51,000 GT hybrid ferry/cruise ship HANNIBAL next year and I would presume she will replace the EL VENIZELOS in their fleet. Unless ANEK have a use for the ship, she could very well be up for sale or charter next year.
I will stop with the conjecturising now, before I come up with even more possibilities…
Kenneth Eden
April 22, 2011 at 11:16 am
Nice idea, great thought, if Mexican registry, I think not.
Just think of it, I love Mexico, and its lovely people, I do not see anything sailing here with US registry, not US built ships, and , well, in light of the fire OCEAN STAR PACIFIC, and —-let me say, this is a dicey idea, at best.
I will leave it up to the big guns, Carnival and most likely RCI and NCL to enter into regular Cuba service when and if, and then when $$billions are spent on hotels docks and casinos in Havana, we can all sit back and watch Miami wither and the Caribbean Island nations drop off the face of the earth.
Past ventures have been attempted over the last 20 years, offering cruises to Cuba, and for some reason, they have failed.
Shawn Dake
April 22, 2011 at 12:36 pm
All good conjecture, Kalle. It certainly helps narrow down the possibilities, if this eventually does take place. Here in the U.S. we’ve had over 50 years to ponder and conjecture about Cuba and when it might open up to tourism once again. A little more discussion can not hurt.
Hank
April 22, 2011 at 2:20 pm
I don’t think I’m going to a red country anytime soon.
Rob
April 22, 2011 at 7:20 pm
@Kenneth Eden
Very few (hardly any) passenger vessels trade under Mexican registry, if you look, you’ll find that OCEAN STAR PACIFIC sails under the Panamanian flag. As US registry would be impossible for a foreign built ship, especially one sailing to Cuba, expect United Caribbean to use one of the typical convenience registries, eg, Panama or the Bahamas.
Richard Bond
April 23, 2011 at 3:54 am
http://www.isp-usa.com/fleet/scotiaprince/scotiaprince.html
The Scotia Prince is currently on charter between India and Sri Lanka.
Kenneth Eden
April 23, 2011 at 4:16 am
Yes, Panamanian flag, country of convenience, seen it hundreds of times on assorted ships. AND Bahamian, Maltese, not so Liberia now(passenger ships), as well as other countries of convenience.
Then again, passengers tend not to care, notice or are even aware of what the country of registry is, or what it means. Imagine Oceania Cruises, being considered a representation of the Marshall Islands?
Then again the above article is merely a CONCEPT.
Michael Bennett
April 23, 2011 at 8:28 am
If I recall correctly, Scandinavian World Cruises almost wrecked DFDS Seaways financially. And of course there was American Family Cruises…Premier, however, was quite a success for awhile.
I love the Cuba ferryidea, though! I think the Yucatan service wouldn’t be as popular, as has been demonstrated in the past.
Kalle Id
April 23, 2011 at 9:19 am
@Kenneth Eden: When it comes to established big players entering the Cuban cruise trade, it should be borne in mind that what’s being planned now are cruiseferry services, not cruise ships that the established players are familiar with. A cruiseferry is a somewhat different animal from a cruise ship and being an established successful cruise ship operator does not mean you would automatically prosper in the cruiseferry trade.
What could actually be a practical course of action for would-be Florida to Cuba or Mexico cruiseferry operators would be collaboration with an established European cruiseferry operator, such as Viking Line, Tallink, DFDS or Color Line. These firms have practical experience in running and marketing cruiseferries, as well as connections that would probably help in buying tonnage. This combined with the Stateside connections of people such as Bruce Nierenberg could be the winning formula, just as Norwegian ship-owners and American hoteliers were for early NCL, Royal Caribbean or Royal Viking.
Edward Kale
April 23, 2011 at 9:53 am
You write that “hotel capacity in Cuba is still too low to handle the additional arrivals.” Why stay in hotels anyway? There are Casas Particulares all over Cuba where guests can stay in family homes. This is a good way to help Cuban families, and the food is excellent! http://www.cuba-junky.com is a good source for information.
David
April 23, 2011 at 10:19 am
Both Carras Cruise (Daphne and Danae) offered cruises to cuba in the mid-1970′s from New Orleans. As did Black Sea shipping companies Odessa and Kazakstan during the same period also from New Orleans…good Idea ?
Capt Bill
April 23, 2011 at 11:33 am
I wonder if any thought was given to using one of the Layed up High speed Hawaii cats?? might make the trip a little less and beable to make it a 1 day trip instead of 2 day trip…. jsut a thought, plus they are already us flagged….
Kenneth Eden
April 24, 2011 at 5:48 am
do not think the big names in cruising are not salivaing over their routes to Cuba – ferries may lead the way, but, the win-out will eventually be the cruise lines.
Jim Behl
April 25, 2011 at 7:36 pm
This is nothing new. Back in the 1950s, car ferries were very common. They sailed from Miami, Key west, Jacksonville and other ports along the east coast. I lived on the east coast of Florida at that time and we would always see them.
Marty Rosenzweig
April 27, 2011 at 11:33 am
As a part time resident of Quintana Roo, Mexico, we would love to see a ferry service from anywhere in the U.S. to Progreso. Due to the “troubles” along the border and progressively moving further south, we and every non local we’ve talked to (who drives down) would use the service. That coupled with an aggressive tourism campaign for the Yucatan peninsular may make the service economically viable. However, only a seasonal service makes any sense to me.
Would it be feasible to bring in equipment from northern latitudes just during their slow winter season and our “high” tourist season? Aren’t cruise ships regularly moved to where the seasonal business occurs?
How about this high speed CAT? Available?
http://www.nfl-bay.com/cat-statement-2009.html
Kalle Id
April 28, 2011 at 9:10 am
A high-speed cat (or a fast monohull) is not a viable option for the Florida-Yucatan run as far as I can see. At 40 knots, which is a fairly high service speed even for a high-speed ship, the crossing from (for example) Tampa to Cancún would take about 12 hours (presuming my quick math is correct). And that’s a loooong time to spend in a small ship with airliner-type seating. Plus a fast cat des not have all the revenue-generating onboard facilities that at least European cruiseferries rely on to make a profit. I’d say the best bet here is a “traditional” cruiseferry on the European model, with a service speed of about 20 knots, capable of transporting 2000-2500 passengers (all with cabin berths) and 300-500 cars and that has similar recreational facilities to a midrange cruise ship.
The idea of moving ships from the northern latitudes to the Florida-Yucatan service for the winter is not at all a bad one. At least in Europe most ferry operators are unprofitable during the winter months and if an option of moving ships to Caribbean for the winter season would be available, many lines would probably be interested in this.
hank
April 28, 2011 at 5:06 pm
I don’t think a whole lot of people in America are going to be very ecstatic over Cuban cruisining. Even if the embargo is lifted it’s highly frowned upon to visit Cuba or any communist/marxist countries. In my opinion, this cruiseferry company should choose another route than the Florida/Cuba/Yucatan because the Castros are evil (and thousands fled Cuba in the 80′s, not a good sign), and Mexico is in a drug war. I’m sure some people would like this kind of trip, but, being the patriot that I am, count me out.
Kenneth Eden
May 3, 2011 at 4:02 am
Gee, Black Sea and Baltic Cruises have been popular pre-post USSR days, been there, done that. It is very interesting to have seen the culture of Soviet Russia and to compare it to todays “free” Russia.
It is also facsinating to see how former communist block countries have embraced their freedoms and are so happy today.
Cuba and me?? castro(s) will never get a dime from me.
Richard Bond
May 12, 2011 at 3:58 pm
One currently legally more viable business would be a service between Habana, Cuba and the Bahamas. The United States makes direct service difficult but there is no such restriction between Cuba and the Bahamas. Another option would be between Santiago and some port in Jamaica.
Kalle Id
May 19, 2011 at 12:51 pm
It seems I’m returning to this subject once again… a potential candidate of a ship for this service has arrived this week, as the French ferry operator SNCM have reported they will be selling their 44 307 GT flagship NAPOLÉON BONAPARTE by the end of 2013 at latest (earlier if possible, depending on local political wranglings). The NAPOLÉON BONAPARTE was built in 1996, she can transport up to 2400 passengers in cruise ship -quality facilities (including an outdoors lido deck) alongside 708 cars, which would make her a very promising candiate for the Florida-Cuba or Florida-Mexico -services (presuming a different operator doesn’t snatch up the sexy ship first).
Kenneth Eden
May 20, 2011 at 5:30 am
Kalle,
A nice thought, really it is. Any use of the NAPOLEON BONAPARTE would be nice, just not in North American waters.
True, she could sail from a US port, with the call at Cuba, or Bahamas, but there is one very critical thing to consider:
Americans do not take ferries. At least, not the longer haul, or overnight ferries, that are so poplular and enjoyable, such as the splendid and often beautiful ferries sailing in all parts of Europe.
Sure, the Staten Island Ferry system, and those from Seattle, are mere modes of transportation as a subway or metro is a substitute for a city bus. And, the Woods Hole Ferry, from Cape Cod to Nantucket and the Vineyard, are fine, though short in duration. There are myriad other so called short ferry rides – including one from Newport News Virginia, a mere 9 minutes, and it is free, and avoids driving acros the river . I sail it not to go from point A to B, but just for the excuse to be able to sail it.
The N B I am sure will find a new and welcoming home, but I doubt it will have any plans involving the US market.
Remember the SCANDINAVIA with car service from New York to Florida – what a great idea. NOT – after a short season, she was withdrawn. Also gone are the BLUE NOSE and the SCOTIA PRIBCE hardly elegant, but they were fun and I loved them, but, Americans will drive until there is not a drop of gas left on the planet. And for the Hawaiian car ferry venture – what a sham.
Kalle Id
May 21, 2011 at 1:38 am
Kenneth, you might very well be right. I’m looking at this thing from the perspective of a person living in the country where ferry cruising is most popular in the world (per capita; on average every Finn takes a ferry cruise per year). However, I do have to point out there is current a successful cruiseferry operator in the US market: Celebration Cruise Line, which has also been covered on this website. The difference to European ferry operators is that they market themselves as a cruise line separately from their freight activities. Also, the SCANDINAVIA’s NY-FL service was flawed by the fact passengers had to change ships at the Bahamas. Though perhaps she would have failed even if she had been able to provide direct New York – Miami -service.
Never the less, I would think that with properly planned marketing and a suitable route, a cruise/ferry service in North American waters would be successful. In this respect Cuba would be an ideal candidate as it is not possible to drive there.
Kenneth Eden
May 21, 2011 at 5:56 am
Kalle
Oh, wishing will not make it happen, I am afraid. And, that is a pity.
My country can not run a decent passnger rail service! Have you ever taken AMTRAK rusted, old crappy trains, with state of the art locomotive engines, capable of bullet like high speed, the ACELA engine it is called,- capable of high speed – running on old, broken, rails, on rail beds that are more sunken than a spring garden ?? It is a disgrace. Our good friends to the north in Canada have a wonderful state of the art rail system. So, given the condition of the US passenger rail system, ferries are probably not going to succeed ever
True, the Finnish ferry system as well as others, are admirable, in selection of ships, and destinations, and are indeed mini-cruises, and are delightful to sail, as well as others in the Baltic area, and not to mention the beautiful ferries seen in the Med. It just won’t work on this side of the pond. And, that is very sad.
carin
August 9, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Reading the bantra of ideas… of why it wont work leaves me with hoping it does work out. In BC there is a market for ex Mexicanos lovers and look forward to a fabulos cruise around the island of cuba.. Who needs to leave from Florida, everyone in Canada can fly to Cuba. I can tell that you are well travelled and today when there are lots of reasons to stay home I wish the parties involved the best of luck and cant wait to sail. We BC islanders love to cruise. Cheers Carin
Jon
May 10, 2012 at 11:47 am
What they should do is start a trinagular route from Tampa, to Cancun, then to Galveston and back to Tampa – just think of all the people from Texas you could take to Tampa and Orlando, great for Foridia tourism as well