QE2 Headed For Chinese Scrap Yard?
The UK’s Daily Mail reported last night that a Chinese crew of 20 had boarded the ship in Dubai– replacing a crew of 40 who had been maintaining the vessel – leading to fears that the ship has indeed been sold for scrap.
The Daily Telegraph reported this morning that QE2 is reportedly to be sold for scrap to a Chinese firm after plans to turn it into a floating hotel were abandoned.
The former Cunard liner has been moored in Dubai’s Port Rashid since it was sold to the firm Istithmar in 2008.
Keith Hamilton from Southampton’s Daily Echo lead with, “Fears grow that legendary liner QE2 could go to the breaker’s yard”.
Rob Lightbody from the QE2 story http://www.theqe2story.com has been warning for months that negotiations for a scrap deal appeared to be underway.
Has time run out for this famous and beloved ship?
Background: Dubai had originally planned to convert the QE2 into a 1,000 room luxury hotel at the Palm Jumeirah island. After the emirate was hit hard by the credit global crunch and the ship has since remained at Port Rashid.
Earlier this month, a British consortium presented Dubai with a $113m (£70m) bid to bring QUEEN ELIZABETH 2 to London and convert into a five star hotel berthed near the O2 Arena on the River Thames. The QE2 London bid was support of Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne and London Mayor, Boris Johnson likely could have brought about 2,000 new jobs to London.
(Updates as they come)
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Gee, I hope not.
No mention of the QE2 London plan?
Sacrilegious!
What a shame, all those years keeping here in good condition for the. scarappers cutting torch. Shame rest in peace old lady of the sea
i dont buy it. if anthing the chinese would love to have it for a floating resort of their own.
R. I. P. Grand lady of the sea
Watch what you wish for, and cry when the wish dies.
I hope all eyes will be dry, if she sails again.
I read with some amuse that the Chinese ship yards were withering due to lack of interest, money and who knows (cares) what else….I don’t.
Maybe the Chinese will in fact take her and sail her as a ship of national pride.
I Am Disgusted An English/American Tradition Is Being Sold To The Chinese Wow Thats Some Class This Ship Has Been In The Cunard For Yrs Until It Was Sold Now They Dont Know What To Do
Thanks Rob, I was not quite done with the piece this morning, I have now added mention of the London Bid – may it prevail! -Martin
As a Pilot in the port of New York I brought her in and out of New York. She was a easy to handle vessel and always in Bristol condition. My Wife and I took a lenthy and most enjoyable cruise on her. It is a shame that she may be scrapped. But she is probably the last of the great Ocean Liners.
All the real ships are being laid to rest and are being replaced by ships designed primarily with high profits in mind. SOLAS (Speedily Old Liners Are Scrapped) exisits so the huge cruise corporations can knock off the competition that still run good ships and crews but cannot afford to bring their ships into compliance or finance new ones.
Numbers65 raises and interesting and important point regarding SOLAS. There’s more to it than just safety of life at sea.
FWIW, Cunard has issued a statement regarding the fate of QE2 on their website saying they are in contact with Dubai and “to the best of their knowledge” the reports “are pure speculation”…make of that what you will.
In any event, the situation is increasingly grave, this is the worst scare we’ve had yet and unless someone acts fast this will not end well for the old girl. She never has had a real chance in Dubai, at least not with the economy the way it is, and in my opinion her only hope for real, long term preservation is to be brought back to the UK.
Theoretically the sale contract to Dubai provided a 10-year period during which they couldn’t sell her on without Cunard’s consent. Whether Dubai or China care is one issue, but it would seem to be a public relations problem for Carnival to consent to scrapping when a viable offer was in place to preserve her in London.
From what I’m able to glean online current shipbreaking rates are approx $425 a ton, or about $29 million for a 70 thousand ton ship. If the London offer of $113 million is true, she’s not on her way to a Chinese scrapyard.
I want the London bid to succeed. Hope and prayer. What else can you do?
New ships go far beyond the purse of the cruise lines or the owners, be they private, familial or corporate.
What is the main crux of the rash of newbuilding is quite simple, clear and should be obvious to any person that actually takes a cruise on a passenger oriented vessel, be it liner, cruise ship or ferry. A cabin cruiser does not count LOL!
Passenger interest and demand for the novel has erupted as never before, and the cruise ship must respond with all the bells and whistles. If they do not compete, they are through.
Sure, there are plans that are extended from one cruise line to another, with major and minor impact on the finished product. Just look at the bevy of ships that came from the Vista Class within the Carnival stable of ships, as well as others.
To offer what each cruise line deems necessary to lure passengers new items have evoled, no longer is a rock climbing wall the big draw, nor are frozen ice bars. Water parks, out door movie venues and more elaborate spas entice, as well as specialty restaurants.
Life as we live it, and where we spend our free time, or other time, is going to be reflected on a ship.
Not all restaurants and dining venues are for everyone, nor is the general theme and decor of interior of the new ships. It is what the traffic will bear, and what draws a specific person to a specific cruise line, ship or product.
There are the mega ships, huge and possibly impersonable, lets say over 95,000 GRT and UP, to the medium size, now 45,000 is considered medium to some (and UP), to the smallish ships, under 45,000GRT, to the smaller with under 200 passengers. The spread is from mega monster to yacht-like. As it should be.
Lets not forget the rebuids, the newer ones being refitted for competition with the biggest of the new ones, or, the smaller with new enticements. Whatever one desires it is there, and will evolve in the not to distant future for more henonistic, or halcyon pleasures at sea.
Non-teak decks have nothing to do with saving money, it is a result of SOLAS, as well as open flames for table side dinner prep and other obvious possible pleasures during a cruise. (of course, money is indeed saved).
The old ships can not compete. Period. SOLAS, fuel, crew salaries and the ever rising cost of food and liquor hurt even the best cruise lines bottom lines, not to mention public offerings where stock holders demand a profit.
Its not all save the ship, it does not work like “save the whales” and, even saving the whales takes mucho money. I support saving whales, seals and all manner of animals, as well as ships.
I certainly have my fingers crossed that the scrap rumor is untrue. I’d love to see the London option become a reality. But does anyone know if there’s even enough water for the QE2 at low tide in the Thames? Space to pass through the Thames Barrier?
I don’t suppose such fundamentals would have been overlooked in the proposal; I always made the uninformed assumption there wasn’t enough water depth for a large liner to make the passage up the Thames.
On another curious note, it rather sounds as if the London proposal involved paying 20MM for the ship itself, but then counting on Dubai to continue to be financially involved in the future project. Can’t say I’d blame Dubai for giving that notion a wide berth after being seriously harmed financially over the past five years.
Still, hope springs eternal. If there’s any ship on Earth worthy of preservation, it is the QE2!
Hello David:
I too was wondering about the depth of the river in regard to QE2 in London. I did just read that HMS Ocean traversed the Thames barrier this year with a greater breadth than QE2, though I imagine draft is more of an issue.
Certainly would love to see her in London.
best – martin cox
“If there is any ship on earth worthy of preservation, it is the QE2…”
I have to ask, why?
She does not have her original machinery, neither does she have her original decor, fixtures, fittings and furniture. Her original external profile is but a distant memory as in subsequent years this has been messed around with that her original graceful appearance has been thoroughly compromised. So in the end what is there really to save?
Curious about the depth of the Thames for sure. I rather thought the bridges were too low for passage, althought, SILVER SEA docked in London for the Summer Olympics, albeit, a very much smaller ship she is. As for any Dubai connection vis a vis London and the QE2, look at the ownership of Harrod’s.
London would be a perfect place for the QE2. Southampton is mainly drop in, hop on and take the cruise, not a stay place as such, and not all that easy to get in and out of.
I have stayed pre-cruise in Southampton, and much prefer London, even Heahrow! Thats my personal take on it.
Clive– I’ve been wondering the same thing. The attachment so many have to the QE2 seems to be based on emotion rather than anything tangible. I’ve read on other forums her being described as a “historic” vessel, which she really isn’t– a minor role in a very minor war hardly puts her in the same league as the military service of the QM & QE, and how can any ship built in 1969 be considered “historic” anyways when she was never the fastest, longest, largest or anything else “est”? I’ll certainly be saddened if she’s indeed off to the scrapyard, just as I was to see the France/Norway go, but it’ll be nothing like the heartache of seeing the United States scrapped.
about the SS United States….that ship is a shell with nothing but its engine spaces left intact, the exterior regardless of what the conservancy says is a mess. so what other than its great speed merits it worth saving over the QE2? at least the QE2 is an intact vessle in very good condition.
The QUEEN ELIZABETH 2 is/was the longest serving Cunard liner, so there is one “est” right there. Plus, 1969 was a very long time ago, no matter what any of us that lived through the 1960’s may want to think. Clive is completely right about all of the changes the ship has undergone, which to my mind only adds to the level of interest in the ship’s history. The QE2 was of her era and was a unique vessel that was a fascinating solution to the problem of replacing the QUEEN MARY and QUEEN ELIZABETH. While certainly not the most historic ship or the most famous of the liners, the QE2 is an icon and one of the last trans-Atlantic liners of her kind.
Matt, the SSUS also is a blank template asbestos-free. QE2 needs asbestos removal. I think the QE2 plan has a good chance, but I also think ruling out the SSUS and saying it is a mess is just a little too much. We are all well aware of SSUS’ condition. However, I think the SSUS being a shell puts her at an advantage. There was a discussion on this site a couple of months ago about that?
Have you even donated to the SSUSC?
actually i have donated. i view the SSUS as a ship in peril and i do want her saved. i know that even with the huge donation they received, time is running low. that ship even with the asbestos removal needs millions upon millions in restoration work, led paint removal, a dry docking, electrical,a permanent berth, oh and a complete interior. as much as i hope, i just dont see it happening in this bad economy we are all living through.
We all realize it Matt. 🙁
Ha, 1969 was a very long time ago. How true. 1969 was an interesting year. It was the start of the Catholic-Protestant wars in Northern Ireland, the year of the moon landing, the year the Beatles last album, Abbey Road, came out. It was the year that the TV show Scooby Doo Where are You, The Brady Bunch, and Sesame Street premiered (Sesame Street is still running). It was the year that the QE2 came into service, and the SS UNITED STATES was withdrawn.
On an unrelated note, My parents and I recently watched the Superliners: End of an Era documentary and when they saw an 80’s dance being taught as a recreational activity. Awkward…
I also noted in my last post I put a question mark in the wrong place…go figure…
(I am posting this comment on behalf of Rob Lightbody due to technical issues – Martin Cox)
I PROFOUNDLY beg to differ with Clive’s comment above that QE2 is so changed that she’s not worth saving.
Regarding her External profile – almost all of it is the same. She’s got a bigger funnel, additional penthouses etc – but if you colour-coded a profile of her with what’s original, versus what’s new, you’d see the vast majority is original.
Internally, the décor changes are almost all superficial and there are huge areas where it is intact – e.g. the handrails throughout, doors, stateroom furniture etc.
The ships layout is largely intact, including almost every public room and every single stateroom, is as 1968. They were limited in what they could do because of the design of the ship, and not wanting to disturb asbestos. Visiting the ship today with a 1968 deck plan is totally possible, as is finding the cabin your grandparents stayed in on the maiden voyage 44 years ago.
QE2’s “New” (25 year old) machinery is of interest, because it established a new precedent for large passenger liners, which everybody followed. It remains the biggest conversion of a passenger liner ever likely to be carried out, because of the enormous expense (the same cost as new cruise ship the same size). Her enormous transatlantic power, and redundancy, to maintain the LAST EVER high speed Atlantic schedule.
– Rob Lightbody
If it comes to that I think she should be put to rest at the foot of Knego Ave. in Peters storage complex where we can visit when shopping and perhaps have tea.
As per my post of today, SS UNITED STATES Pilgrimage part 2, by Peter Knego, there indeed seems to be some light at the end of the tunnel for the Big U, and with Martins post of today, hopefully some new assuarances that there may indeed be some real hope for the QE2.
I too had some trouble with tech difficulties earlier today here, and they seem to be cleared out.
Now, as for the QE2 to be not of interest in preserving, I am appalled at this suggestion, as it seems both Martin Cox and Rob Lightbody are.
To assume with arrogance and sheer hubris that she is not a worthy vessel to preserve is without a doubt the most ignorant height of foolishness that only a rare and select portion of the human populace can attain.
Martin, on Rob Lightbody’s behalf, has made the points of the QE2 and her very spacial place in history quite clear.
Molded plastic walls (they were original and in my mind, ugly), new suites and engines and the like made the ship EVOLVE, as everything on earth does, evolve. If one doesn’t like the result of the evolotion taken by Cunard with the QE2, so be it. One persons dislike does not make the ship unworthy for preservation.
Anybody have news about the future of the Saga Ruby?. I think it would e nice to have her preserved And in my view her best incarnation was as the Cunard Caronia era . It would nice to see them both a preserved as examples of the last classic British built liners. but i know i am dreaming
“To assume with arrogance and sheer hubris that she is not a worthy vessel to preserve is without a doubt the most ignorant height of foolishness that only a rare and select portion of the human populace can attain.”
Wow, over-react much? The comment was made that “If there’s any ship on *Earth* (emphasis mine) worthy of preservation, it is the QE2!” another poster asked “why” and I wondered the same thing. I never suggested she was “unworthy” of preservation and indeed fervently hope she is saved, and the lessons learned from the horrible gutting and auctioning off of her contents that the Queen Mary suffered be applied. But again, nothing you or anyone else has posted suggests any reasons beyond pure ~emotion~ why the QE2 should be the most preservation- worthy vessel on Earth. Personally my vote would go to the Nomadic & Doulos Phos, for historical reasons, not emotional ones.
Unfortunately, sometimes ships like QE2 and NORWAY bring out a rabid, vociferous type of ship enthusiast that has to lambast anyone who does not share the exact same amount of passion for “their” liner. Best to try and ignore the harsh comments, unless, of course, there is slander involved. –Peter, who, after watching so many beautiful ships like WINDSOR CASTLE, AUGUSTUS and AUREOL go to the torch, often wonders the same thing.
Clive and Paul,
I must disagree with you on QE2 not being historic. It certainly was. I also must disagree with the statement that the Falklands war was a minor war. On the contrary. The Falklands were taken by Argentina and it was believed to be impossible for the British to take them back. The British went down there, beat them, and took the islands back in 74 days. They reasserted Britain on the world stage showing that Britain was still powerful today. In fact, Britain is still powerful. They have the fourth largest military expenditure in the world (only USA, China, and Russia spend more on military). They are one of only eight countries with nuclear weapons (unless you consider Israel the ninth), and they have had heavy involvement in Europe.
The Falklands was the only war where a nuclear submarine attacked a ship, the last time that there was a need for merchant ships as troopships, and also a major victory for the British and gave freedom for the people of the Falklands to choose self-determination (they chose to remain British).
QE2: 43 years of life and hopefully many more in London.
Oh, no, Glenn! Knego Avenue is closed for future bookings. Too many treasures already need to find a home before I drown in debt. And, alas, poor QE2 really has so few original bits of interest. In her case, the whole is definitely worth more than the sum of her parts, excluding the Heritage Trail which should have immediately been taken to an apparently non-existent Cunard archive for preservation before the ship left for Dubai. –Peter
Hank, and everyone else that has risen up in chorus, when and where did I say that the QE2 was not ‘historic’? She’s heading towards 45 and in the world of passenger vessels, as we know, that is old thus one could say ‘historic.’ She is a well-travelled vessel of what is perhaps the most famous North Atlantic shipping line so she has earned a distinct place in the history of Cunard. But is that reason enough to ‘save’ her? The London plan does actually sound interesting but then so did those ideas of having the Augustus permanently berthed in Genoa!
I fear that there are many who look back and mourn the fact that the likes of Canberra, Windsor Castle, America, Independence, Augustus etc have all gone and become frantic to “at least save the QE2”. As interesting as the London plan sounds, how long would it be before the novelty value worn thin? A beautiful preservation job has been done on Rotterdam but at the other end of the spectrum we have the memories of what was done to the once magnificent Oriana. Such indignity.
Clive
Yes, it most probably a case of poignant memories for many of us. We are grasping to hold on to happier times, that is human nature, and for many, the QE2 may well be the fountain head of memories, as the last of her kind, at least, she was to be the “last” ocean liner ever to be built, so, QUEEN MARY2 dashed that claim, I am at least happy to have the QM2 sailing.
I take no offense whatsoever in any of the comments made here and in fact delight in discussion and debate with like-minded liner enthusiasts, in fact if I had one wish for this excellent website it would be the installation of a discussion forum (hint hint hehe)
FWIW, I consider the QE2 to be the last “true” liner built, I personally find the QM2 ungainly and unattractive, and she’s far more *cruise ship* than ocean liner to me. YMMV of course. 😉
Anyways, Happy New Year Martin, Peter & MM posters 🙂
When the QUEEN ELIZABETH 2 entered service, she was quite daring to some, especially her exterior which bore +dare I say+ no ressemblance to her famed Cunarders of more modern era, Queens ELIZABETH and MARY, and MAURETANNIA II, and certainly she was not green al la CORONIA.
The QE2’s stack was spindly, lacked Cunard colors, and bore a sleeker, perhaps “sexy” profile. In short, I thought she was gorgeous. So new, so modern. Inside she was a marvel, some decor choices were not to my liking, but, she was special to behold.
So, along comes the ship +the liner+ that was never to be, afterall, maritime historians lamented that the QE2 was the last liner to be built, only to see all of their books become obsolete when the grandest liner ever – my sentiments – arrived, QUEEN MARY 2.
Very inventive she is, the QM2, offering everything the now passenger demands, while hidden well in a more traditional housing.
If you look straight on to the “face” of the QM2, it is quite obvious where the look came from, the QUEEN MARY. It can not be missed. And, the QM2 has the QM’s original whistle.
As for those obsolete books, are they truly obsolete? Heck no. They are treausre troves into what former ships were like, pictures alone are worth the price of these books.
Sorry Clive, I was actually discussing more about the Falklands than I was about QE2 as I felt that QE2 had already been covered well and saw Peter’s comment on Rabid ocean liner followers and didn’t want to be considered rabid.
Well, although no-one seemed to approve of my disparaging remarks about “soul-less floating shoeboxes” when referring to the Carnival Breeze a few weeks ago, in this case, I agree whole-heartedly that to scrap QE-2 would be a crime.
That other most famous and well-loved British liner of the era, P&O’s Canberra, is long-lost to us, so let us hope that QE-2 can survive all the “bean-counters” and “bottom liners” and be preserved, just because she is beautiful!
Alan
“soul-less floating shoeboxes” indeed!
When Home Lines MV ATLANTIC debuted, I was on the maiden voyage from New York, most of us agreed that on the exterior she was “an ugly floating milk carton”! Who knew she would end up as a “big Red Boat” er, BLOAT, and lasted through her years with MSC as MEOLODY.
The Premiere “bloats” were often refered to as Heinz Ketchup bottles due to their vile red hulls.
LOL
Kenneth,,over the years my negative feelings over the Atlantic’s exterior. has some what mellowed out. her lines now to me seem more “classic” compared to the some of those modern floating condos.
Elias
Yes, her looks have become “classic” and she can still hold her own in todays cruise world, except for the lack of the amenities found on board, it is her overal exterior that exude a warmth that is missing from most new ships.
During the maiden cruise bar tenders that I was quite friendly with from SS OCEANIC that had new contracts on the MV ATLANTIC, were upset with the some of the ships bars, as they had no sinks for rinsing and disposing of left over drinks and ice. Some cabins had TV’s, others not. Petty things.
I shall never forget the MDR with the huge square chandeliers and the amaranth upholstery. I to this day regret not having sailed on the SS DORIC. I did sail her as ROYAL Oddesey. Thats a story in and of itself.
She has been maintained in a meticulous condition with millions being spent over the next 3 mos preparing her for sea – her owners claim to not worry about her she will look 18 again when updates are complete – its good to know – I never sailed on her but did visit a few times. From the map it appears she is headed for Shanghai or Hong Kong